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Catherine Shi's avatar

There are two wolves inside of you. One wolf wants you to use your free will and take full responsibility over everything in your life. The other wolf wants you to understand how you are shaped by your physical and mental environment. I keep trying to get them to kiss but they never do.

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Joel Flamel's avatar

The Marriage of the Sun and the Moon

The Active and The Passive

Look into Alchemy

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Deborah Bell's avatar

I love this!

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Messy Jessie's avatar

This is the only response.

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Bear Wiseman's avatar

I actually really appreciate this article and your gentle attitude in it, and when I get around to writing my thoughts on why depressive people seldomly seem get better, I might reference this article, because you talk about a phenomenon that I have also experienced as a person who became badly depressed by external factors (almost in my exact words, no less)...

We often expect things (like meds) to do the work of healing us and moving us on, but mental health excuses a lot and meds generally only cure symptoms, no causes. Especially where I live (autism, depression, and ADHD are hugely common in Finland). I've seen many depressed friends fall into complacency and lethargy and never get out of it.

It's usually necessary at first to rest. We get so stressed and burnt out that we need to have sometimes a few years on meds to recover from life. I needed about 2 years, personally.

But then why do I see so many people wasting away in hopelessness for sooo long? Because I agree with you - we seem to think we are entitled to "easiness" now and whenever life isn't "easy," we reject it outright.

Things that have helped my depression and ADHD? Regulating my phone time. Lessening socials. More IRL friend time. More game nights. Less work that is unrewarding and more work that is! There are steps we can take and they won't necessarily be easy, but they are worth it 🔥

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hannah lee's avatar

This is really well put. I think another part of why people stay in that state of hopelessness for so long because it’s comfortable and familiar. At least that has been my own experience in the past. There is a level of resilience required in stepping out of one’s comfort zone.

I think meds can be a wonderful tool for helping people get to a place where they have the capacity to take the steps to make their lives better or figure out strategies for coping, but it’s still up to us to do the work!

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Bear Wiseman's avatar

Exactly! I do believe misery is addictive at a certain point because it excuses so much. People let you out of social expectations, ease off work pressure (in kind circles, at least), and express love and sympathy. It gives you permission to catch up on rest, but rest does not cure depression nor does it change the circumstances that put us there.

There is a reason that depressed folks are told to go for more walks (yes sometimes people say that from dismissive ignorance, don't get me wrong)... not because we're lazy but because they are genuinely good for our mental health. Of course you don't need to go for a walk if you're too tired to move, but how about 5m of fresh air?

It's the same as weigt-lifting: you have to start with what you can handle and move up. You'll never do an epic lift if you don't pick up the bar. You'll never move beyond depression if you don't deal with the things hurting you in life, and you can't do that without putting in some effort.

I do wish all the strength and love to people trying to get out of the pit 💞

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Jodi Thomas's avatar

You should look into Roger Mcfilin’s work. He is a psychiatrist and against the widespread use of SSRI’s. I suffer from depression occasionally due to severe chronic illness/pain that started in my early 20’s and flipped my world upside down. But I’m able to manage it with strength training. I started for my health and couldn’t believe the impacts on mental health and overall resilience. TBH most depressed people I know do not take care of their bodies and don’t realize it can make a huge difference. I’ve had people ask why Im not on anti depressants. It’s their first instinct, as if society didn’t exist for centuries prior to the invention of SSRI’s. But I honestly felt like my response is appropriate to my circumstances & didn’t want to numb everything. It’s like managing it naturally isn’t even on the table to some.

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D.J. Liberty's avatar

Have you read “You People Can’t Do Anything” by Millie Jaco (https://milliejaco.substack.com/p/you-people-cant-do-anything)? I would really recommend it if you’re interested in a bit more context around how this discourse has been co-opted by the right over the last several years. 

I am sympathetic to your points about self-infantilization, alienation, and excessive boundary-setting, and I shared so many of your frustrations when I was younger and first dealing with my own diagnoses. Joining activist groups, working directly with neurodivergent children & parents, and doing academic research in disability studies, however, has made it incredibly clear that we must be acutely aware of who benefits (and who loses) when we repeat age-old suggestions that younger people (disabled or not!) are simply consumed with self-pity, particularly in this political climate. 

If we truly want to avoid “stifling political action and perpetuating individualism,” as you suggest, then telling people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps as they get from A to B is not the way to go. It sounds like we agree on a fair amount here and I don’t want to come off as aggressive, but I think there are real stakes to these conversations that get ignored when we focus on annoying teens on Twitter.

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Jordan Stacey's avatar

Hi — thank you for the thoughtful response. This is obviously a nuanced conversation that I knew I wouldn’t be able to fully unpack in a short essay, but I feel I did touch on the dangers of this being co-opted by the right. I am not trying to say that we all must suck it up, but merely that if we don’t take a bit more control of the pendulum then it will fall into the hands of the right that understands how to use it for evil. Perhaps a longer version is required. Very much understand this perspective though and appreciate the conversation.

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Sem Sath's avatar

-We should do self-care but not so much that we’re comfortable.

-We should foster community but ultimately focus on ourselves.

-We should rest but not so much that we feel rested.

-Rugged individualism is unhealthy, but disabled individualism is necessary and even noble.

All this vacillating is making me seasick. If I were you, I would just drop the word ‘lazy’ from your lexicon altogether unless you liked being pegged as a right-wing sympathizer. If you don’t believe in it, don’t even invoke it.

Finally, if you feel you have to go out of your way to clarify that you are *not* being ableist here, maybe sit with that for a while before pressing ‘post.’

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Late Blooming's avatar

Thanks for proving the author's point

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Sem Sath's avatar

No she has no point, all she has is grievances.

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Late Blooming's avatar

Hahaha, again, thanks for proving the point 😅😅😅

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Sem Sath's avatar

What point? What point did she make? Spell it out.

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ReadingRainbow's avatar

What is the danger being posed by the right? Why are they evil? Why is individualism a bad thing?

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Sem Sath's avatar

What good ideas are being promoted by the right? Why are they good? Why is collectivism a bad thing?

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ReadingRainbow's avatar

Deporting illegals immigrants and preventing the castration of children. Ending racial discrimination in hiring and admissions. Auditing the budget. Reshoring manufacturing in critical infrastructure. Holding male and female soldiers to the same physical standards. Preventing pharma executives from having controlling input on the approval of pharmaceuticals.

You know, all sorts of things that are perfectly logical that normal Americans support.

No one is convinced by your 2010 manipulation tactics. Talking points are talking points because they are effective. Your talking points are that men can be women because they said so and countries shouldn’t have borders. Good luck.

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Sem Sath's avatar

All of these "ideas" are totally reactionary and based in hatred and skepticism of other people. Trans people are beautiful, no one is illegal, borders are bullshit, money is fake, the deficit is not the existential problem you think it is (the government's debt is the private sector's surplus), and all health care should be free at the point of service, including medication. These ideas are good; yours are not.

You can tell yourself 'this is about following the law' all you want, but this is really about your own insecurity. Stop digesting and spitting out obvious lies and maybe you'll build a little credibility. Besides, you won't get very far in life hating immigrants and trans people, unless you plan to remain in Loserville forever.

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ReadingRainbow's avatar

“Collectivism” is just tyranny by another name. Hundreds of millions of people have died for collectivism. The government isn’t your mommy.

None of which is relevant to the conversation at hand. You people are the ones othering half the country and calling for violence. You’re the ones rigging elections and banning political parties. You’re the ones arresting people for dissenting speech and holding political prisoners. That’s what collectivists always do.

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Sem Sath's avatar

Oh wow, did you find those talking points rooting through Joe McCarthy’s trash?

Anyway, answer my first two questions. Go on, try it without sounding insane.

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lil bean's avatar

Thank you—this is exactly what I was thinking. I’m all for finding motivation wherever we can, and never giving up on finding our way back to a felt sense of community and wholistic, dignified lives—somehow despite our very real societal and individual challenges. There is a way, or several, in fact.. But this article’s sort of viewpoint feels a little too similar to the ‘pick yourself up by yer bootstraps’ / inherently shame-based tactics the conservative movement weaponizes against teens. And I honestly don’t know if I believe a piece that claims it’s not touting ableist rhetoric while having an entire section with “laziness” in the title.

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Jordan Stacey's avatar

I appreciate this concern, but I don’t think there is anything shame-based about what I am saying. I am making a point about being intentional — exploring your own delicate balance of grace and discipline. I have a section with “laziness” in the title because sometimes we do undermine ourselves, but only I can know if I am being lazy. I would never deem someone else to be lazy as I can never truly know their plight.

I am propounding self reflection, not demanding action.

It is also important to understand how our words and actions are viewed outside of our bubble. The right gains power by zooming out and the left loses it by zooming in. We must zoom out occasionally. The point is not that disabled people should hop along quietly, but that we should not coddle ourselves into submission. Again, only the individual can know what this line is. As a chronically ill white girl, this is as based in my own self reflection as it is in observation and research.

I tried to be gentle and make it clear that I am always giving myself and those around me grace, but if it does not come across this way I apologise.

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Agustina's avatar

I have to disagree on how this article reads. This is definitely a nuanced conversation, but a big point I take away is that this is specifically talking about white, minorly-othered people. Our non-white counterparts (disabled and non-disabled alike) have had to be resilient out of survival.

I do think if I was reading this as a 17 year old, this also would've struck a nerve with me (maybe I'm wrong, but that is likely where you see some points as shame-based), although I would've known deep down that is because the points are valid. We can and should always take responsibility for our own lives, and we need to learn how to show up for ourselves the way we would like to see the world show up for us.

The biggest movements for equality are often led by those most disenfranchised. The ADA was passed because the disabled community, many of whom belonged to disenfranchised racial minorities, led the movement and demanded better treatment. That doesn't mean they should have been alone in the fight or that it was fair that they had to advocate for equal treatment in the first place. It just means you always have more power than you think you do, even if all you can do is change your perspective, or gain the courage to ask for help.

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Atheeva Reji Kumar's avatar

I also feel like somtimes opting out of action is just moving the burden onto someone that doesn't have the choice not to. Someome has to do the dishes. They don't get done by themselves.

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siren's avatar

completely agree with you here. my brother was severely autistic and never had to take on any responsibility, thus making me have to do his chores for him for years. funny thing is I am also autistic and my needs almost never went met. inequality is inequality, but some people want things to be easier for themselves so bad that they are unable to see the weight it puts on others.

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smoke & mirrors's avatar

This is very interesting to read , and also holy shit, your experience sounds rough. I’m a fully-abled white (Slavic) woman with practically no issues, except for a pelvic floor disorder and herpes (type 1 & 2) that somewhat complicate my dating life, but it’s not a big deal.

I’m also an immigrant, so the mental health crisis in Canada and all the social media talk around it in North America bewilders me. :D I learned to be empathetic because, clearly, I live my life on easy mode.

But I’m also curious if sometimes young people rob themselves of learning and growing, because growing is meant to be painful sometimes.

I think you’re right, not everyone understands that living life “on easy mode” (like I do) still does not make life easy. Like, 2 months ago, I had suicidal thoughts, and I’m not even clinically depressed. It’s just life. I’m in therapy & have close friends, it’s taken care of.

I’m also a super outgoing extravert and I love connecting with people; doesn’t cancel out the intense stomach cramps when I’m about to go to a new event because I’m just as nervous about looking stupid or not fitting in.

What else? I literally had to quit my job once because I had constant IBS from burnout. That’s how I burned through all my savings and acquired 14k worth of debt. It was the best money ever spent, I never felt more powerful than leaving the place where I wasn’t treated well. If I’d just assumed the problem was with capitalism and the workplace had to start treating me better, I’d still be there, completely broken.

I currently have chronic shoulder pain from work stress, and my work is not even really stressful. Sometimes I worry if I can do any 9 to 5 at all.

I read recently that people self-diagnose a lot with ADHD and OCD and autism so that they could fit in or so that they could explain why life is hard for them.

Sometimes I read herpes support groups on Reddit and people there are full-on clinically depressed because they have herpes an they keep ruminating in it. But the more you obsess about it, the less chances you can build a good life around it. You gotta focus on the positives.

It is really just life, like you said.

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Lena's avatar

Ruminating and obsessing over health problems or really any problems is so unhelpful. So many support communities become more anxiety-inducing.

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smoke & mirrors's avatar

Seriously. I don't even wanna show up there anymore.

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Sophie Blackshaw's avatar

I’ve also left a group for my condition because every time I went in there I left unable to think about anything except how sick I was!

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smoke & mirrors's avatar

100% understanding. I understand now why Alcoholics Anonymous, PTSD support groups, etc. are all moderated by trained mediators/non-participants. Surely it has something to do with participants not being trained to keep the discussion productive for their recovery and not just bring each other down like crabs in a bucket.

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Jen Hammer's avatar

I have tinnitus (hear a constant high pitched noise in my head from inner ear damage) and it DOESN'T drive me crazy and is only a bit annoying occasionally but I went online recently to see if there have been any developments in alleviating it, and wow, that subreddit is full of people driving themselves completely insane and threatening to take me with them. I got outta there pretty fast.

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smoke & mirrors's avatar

Darrnnnnnn sounds tough but kudos to you on not making it the center of your life!

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Ebenezer's avatar

Sounds like you have a lot of chronic pain problems. I recommend https://www.painscience.com/

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smoke & mirrors's avatar

Thanks a ton! I'll take a look

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Hannah's avatar

“There is a wave of intolerance to discomfort that is stifling political action and perpetuating individualism” — you have touched the main artery here. Great food for thought.

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Aria Vega's avatar

Just echoing the comment that spoke to the gentleness of this astute analysis! You’re inspiring me to probe all the areas in my life where I could be confusing inconvenience for inaccessibility. It’s a tall order as I’m neurodivergent and live with severe chronic pain, and much of the world is genuinely inaccessible to me. But it’s still vitally important work, and disabled people can also benefit from doing it.

I’m also thinking deeply about the situational aspect of ADHD. As someone who was formally diagnosed in adulthood, I’ve noticed that reducing my screen time and cannabis consumption did more to improve my symptoms than Adderall ever did. Which isn’t to say that my ADHD isn’t real, or that the recent wave of diagnoses isn’t real. It’s just that there’s more going on with all of us than aberrant wiring, but reckoning with that requires more nuance and self-reflection than I think most of us are comfortable with. But to your point, that’s where the work begins!

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Maggie Jon's avatar

I agree with pretty much everything except for the part about other generations having their shit together. First of all, we are comparing ourselves with people who have had more time to learn to get their shit together. Also, there are so many reasons for us to feel overwhelmed, plus our brains have been fried by social media use from a very young age. I was raised 'Gen X style' but still struggle. Great article 👍

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mel's avatar

"Community requires sacrifice to your autonomy. Revolution requires sacrificing comfort. If you aren’t willing to go outside of your comfort bubble for someone, no government-mandated third spaces are going to magically gift you with a sense of community." bingo

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Treladon's avatar

I think what you're talking about is humility. Too much resilience is thinking you're so strong you don't need anything. Too little resilience is thinking you're the exception that others need to cater to. Humility is realizing you're a human with weaknesses, just like everyone else.

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Sorrel Virginia Hester's avatar

As a Black person who recently discovered I'm autistic, I am very traumatized by the learned helplessness of white and other relatively privileged folks who use neurodivergence to mask their needs for convenience/their entitlement to comfort. When I say traumatized I am saying that I experienced dating violence, not harm, but violence from self diagnosed, entitled white people. On the other side of it now, it is clear to me they lack integrity. My life has improved greatly when I don't overfunction for the learned helplessness and entitled brigade. But it's hard and threatening bc again white people are very entitled and expect Black folks to be their mules and will lash out. As a person recovering from over-functioning and codependency (eldest child trauma, child of immigrant trauma, earnest child trauma, etc), I really appreciate your post. It is a therapy session in itself. Thank you for embracing your agency. There's a big discrepancy between how overfunctioners and underfunctioners respond to a diagnosis and at least for me, my diagnosis and burnout led me to figure out how to make softer choices as a chronic overfunctioner. It's really hard bc there's a familiarity in over-functioning for entitled people and sometimes it legit keeps me safe from white violence. But, I don't want to burnout again. I have a supportive enough workplace and friends who see me now, so it's safe enough to release perfectionism now. ❤️

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Lidija P Nagulov's avatar

This is a great article. A few things leap out at me. One is the idea that ‘the world is not meant to be hard but also isn’t meant to be easy’. The world isn’t meant to be anything. You are not meant to be anything. Most things that control our lives don’t care about who we are and what we do. If you are born in Siberia, life is ‘meant’ to be pretty darn tough. If you’re born on a tropical island with fruit hanging from every tree, life is ‘meant’ to be chill. We all get what we get.

Another thing is why the previous generation (mine) has their shit together. And this is where things get interesting. We mostly have our shit together because we were taught that not having our shit together was a crime punishable by death. You bring home a bad grade and you’re going to be punished. You mess up something in the house you’re going to be punished. You break your toy, you don’t have a toy anymore. You fall down and scrape your knee, your parent walks up to you and smacks you for ‘not being careful’ and ‘scaring them’.

This obviously wasn’t fun but it did build ‘resilience’, or rather the understanding that you either had your shit together, or things got really bad really fast. The consequences were made really really clear.

Today I feel consequences aren’t really real anymore. On the one hand we the latchkey generation are way gentler as parents than our parents were to us, so we give a lot of chances and not a lot of consequences. And human beings are maximally adaptable creatures. You take away the need to struggle, we will adapt to not struggling really damn fast. But we can adapt the other way too, usually.

On the other hand everything is so messed up in the world that you can easily say ‘well no wonder it didn’t work out for me’, because lots of things aren’t working out for lots of people. So you don’t learn lessons from fucking up, because already is already fucked up, and also people told you it’s not your fault, you are just like that.

And this is another interesting thing. You might be ‘like that’, but the range of how seriously you take your own sensitivities largely depends on how the people around you are indicating you should take them. It’s kinda like when a toddler falls down and looks at you for confirmation on whether he should cry. If you go ‘you’re ok, you’re ok!’ They will brush themselves off and keep going. If you go ‘OH YOU POOR THING ARE YOU HURT!??’ they will start to cry.

The thing that happened to them is the same. But in one case they were encouraged to overcome the discomfort, and in the other to dwell on it.

Now of course there is a range of sensitivities and for some people bright light or noise or whatever might be really hard to endure. But if they had something worse on the other side (like my generation’s parents’ ‘if you make a scene I’ll give you a good hiding!!’) you would endure the bloody lights, because getting beaten with a belt is worse.

Of course that also meant that those who really couldn’t handle it would end up pushed beyond their limits and would end up in institutions, or worse. The more we support everyone’s needs the ‘weaker’ we seem as a society, because before, those people would have…. died. Or just been locked away somewhere. As ‘deficient and unable to handle life’.

But underneath it all I absolutely agree with you, the pendulum has swung and will swing again. And we do need to start putting community over comfort before we end up with neither.

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Lillian Alaine's avatar

“I have led a toothless life, he thought. A toothless life. I have never bitten into anything. I was waiting. I was reserving myself for later on- and I have just noticed my teeth have gone.”- Jean-Paul Sartre.

Thank you for writing this it resonated with me.

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sasha's avatar

As my mother always says, “We find satisfaction in our spleen”. When I was younger and my mental health wasn’t at its best, my mother would always push me out of bed. Not because she didn’t have empathy, she knows pretty well what depression is. But because she thought the only way to win over depression was to fight it. Not always easy, but with the right people at your side, you can do it. But always remember you’re the only one who can take action.

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Treladon's avatar

That's love right there. ❤️

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Sidney Gardner's avatar

from one chronically ill white girl to another: this is everything

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Melissa's avatar

Resilience drought and choosing autonomy over community resonates so much with me right now. It’s so true that comfort is too often seen as an entitlement now when always being comfortable is not in even our own best interest to stretch and grow.

Thank you for the care and precision you took in putting this together!

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